Road to Avalon - Again.

Road to Avalon (RTA)
“This is mainly in response to Tiwaz and his can-of-chicken analysis, but more generally to the tone of disaster I'm so tired of people espousing.”

Calling All Angels (CAA)
Do you want me to do cans of tuna? I can do tuna. As for the example is it not factually correct? Is it wrong? What’s your problem with the example? As for disaster, did you watch the video. I posted in the comments of serious stimulus. It is a democratic congressman talking about how our financial and political system almost collapsed because of an electronic run on the banks that occurred in September of 2008. He then goes on to talk about how we are no better off today months later. Um…might be time to start discussing disasters as we are in one.

RTA
“Because, you see, all you need to do to put this in perspective is look at a)how people are still beating down our door to get in this country and stay illegally if possible b) how it is still possible for us to have these debates, and educate ourselves to produce some of the brightest and most capable minds in the worlds

CAA
Most capable minds in the world? Then why does the world stand on the brink of worldwide depression or complete economic collapse? Maybe, just maybe everything you hear coming out of these “so called” bright people is total crap. Everybody bought it, now we are screwed. Also, if you believe the government can create jobs, why has there ever been unemployment…EVER? Obvious answer. IT CAN’T. A country called Russia tired it, a country called China tried it. Russia has since collapsed and is on its way to round two. China is dealing with 20 million suddenly unemployed people and is experiencing the worst civil unrest in its history. There is no proof that governments can create jobs in a meaningful way. NONE.

RTA
c) how our cred just went up on the world stage by booting the Texas Moron and installing an educated statesman like Obama who's proof of social progress in this nation even as Prop 9 and a Roe v Wade reversal lurk ..”

CAA
Our cred? You mean after Obama stuffed his Cabinet with a bunch of lobbyists against campaign promises, will continue and expand the war in Afghanistan, continues (and is stepping up) attacks in Pakistan against the protests of their government often killing women and children, will continue CIA rendition, torture, interrogation, kidnapping and domestic spying, will give Bush a Free pass. Not only that but also presented a pork barrel stuffed mega spending bill that tanked the stock market? Nominated 4 tax cheats and got one confirmed? Came out and used the same scare tactics Bush used on stimulus…pass or else? I have heard “more of the same” coming out of just about every news organization in the country. Honeymoon is over.

RTA
“So Tiwaz, although the people in power (or who don't have it but desperately want it like Ron Paul) have something to gain by talking trash and apocalypse, you need to be smarter than blindly repeating their mantras and ask what you stand to gain by making people afraid rather than inspiring them to spend the energies they've got on constructive pursuits.

CAA
If Ron Paul so desperately wanted power why didn’t he run as an independent in the election? He refused even though he was gaining immense popularity and was raising a lot of money. Power was not his goal, I believe he called it a “Campaign for Liberty”. Are you talking about the mantra’s of “no wars of aggression, less taxes, more freedom, less government waste, less government intervention in our lives, the freedom to chose etc”. I will gladly spout those until the day I die, I am an American. Maybe Obama should start.

What I see in government scares me. I see people voting for bills like the John Warner 2007 Defense Authorization Act or the Homegrown Terrorist act that gives our government Gestapo like authority and powers and shreds the constitution. Our founding fathers warned us against such abuses and now we have a president that voted for both of those monstrosities against freedom. That scares me and it should scare you too. Ron Paul talks openly and honestly about our problems and offers solutions like eliminate the income tax, end foreign wars of aggression etc. Obama offers no solutions but continuing Bush’s failed policies. He even kept his national security team around to help him do just that.

RTA
Do you think we need to be afraid in order to make the world a better place ? I really wish I knew why from the minute I met you you were trying to convince me to be afraid - that something is horribly wrong.”

CAA
The world has changed radically. Our banking system and economy stand on the brink of total collapse. We have lost 3.6 million jobs and there is no end in sight. Many states unemployment funds have run out or are going to run out soon. We have the very real possibility of hyperinflation (chicken can example). Our states are broke, out country is broke and we are up to our eyeballs in debt. We are 5% of the world population and use 25% of its oil. A resource we are utterly dependent upon and that is running out. There is no rosy picture to paint for you, and to believe there is one is naïve. This is the truth, this is reality. I hope that you get scared and join me in trying to get ready for a future that has never been more frightening. Maybe if enough people demand better leadership we’ll get it. Lets face facts.

RTA
“But - if 3rd party candidates are your only role models, I can't expect you to understand the crafting of a message that appeals to more than just the fringe. I don't know if you picture the world as a bunch of disenfranchised people who aren't doing anything, and need to be moved to panic to make them do something.

CAA
My role models are data and evidence. And your blog claimed I was full of conjecture, your post reeks of it. I will offer bills, sources and any other proof you desire to back up my claims that you SHOULD be scared and that we must act to ensure a future for our country. Gloom and doom is only that if it is not reality. I have tried to offer a lot of evidence that this is in fact reality, not the rosy picture of hope the politicians would have you believe. The evidence is out there, and if we have a truly informed public maybe we can force the change necessary to survive as a nation. However if the conversation continues as it has on RTA we are certainly doomed. I will offer you as many links and articles, evidence and data I can. All you need do is ask.

RTA
But that's the sense I get talking to the gloom and doom types I'm tempted to lump you in with. If you want to propose something we can *do*, you'll have my ear.

CAA
My Proposals.

Campaign Finance Reform - IMMEDIATELY

Publicly finance all elections and make them fair so that we don’t have another bought and paid for election…ahem…Obama. Make it illegal for any politician to accept money in any form. Raise all the salaries of elected officials and create draconian laws preventing abuses. Do you honestly think Obama will level the playing field now that he is in office? He already lied about taking public money choosing to opt out (after promising to take it) once his war chest trumped McCain’s.

Stimulus

If we are going to have a stimulus lets offer incentives for anyone to become an organic farmer. Tax breaks, incentives and grants to begin restoring soil and planting and producing crops organically. 500 billion for renewable energy research and implementation in 3 years. Aim to convert the top 500 cities to wind, solar or any other thing we can come up with before the price of oil hits 400 a barrel. Balance the budget, begin paying down debt. Begin a massive conversion to public transportation. 15 year massive project that might actually create or at least save some jobs.

Government

End the CIA, rendition, torture, domestic spying, the war in Afghanistan, Iraq, close the 1000 worldwide military bases and bring the troops home. Get rid of these horrible fascist bills like John Warner, Patriot Act etc. Cut military spending by 75%, pull out of the UN.

Crisis
Build a commission and declare the entire world in bankruptcy reorganization. I am taking this one from LaRouche. He is sort of a crackpot but sometimes genius. Not only do we need to keep the things necessary to life on the planet going such as farming and energy production but we need to begin transitioning to renewable energy even though it still sucks. The world is functionally insolvent. We need to recognize that.

In conclusion

I think that I would be hard pressed to find anyone who disagrees with much of the above. However Obama will do almost none of it. I don’t repeat Ron Paul’s mantra’s…he voices some of the things I think this country needs so I support him in those things.

Personal for just a sec….
I don’t like doing this because it destroys discussions and so far I have enjoyed reading and commenting on your blog. I enjoy a good argument, I enjoy learning and nothing helps me learn more than a good discussion with someone smarter than myself. I invite you to rebuff and refute any argument I present with passion, but also with logic, examples and data.

That being said I feel the RTA post was meant to be insulting and a distraction. Please refrain from those tactics. For example I would like to see you address my arguments on meta-economics rather than read this garbage.

Sincerely

Tiwaz – Calling All Angels.